Mack Collier writes Backstage Pass from rural Alabama.
He builds communities of raving fans. The true embodiment of Kevin Kelly's 1000 True Fans. I subscribed because I experienced this firsthand.
He's been building rooms on the internet since 1988. Mack joined Prodigy in 1991. He went independent in 2006. In March 2009 he started #Blogchat, a Sunday night Twitter conversation about blogging, and grew it to 15 to 25 million timeline deliveries a week.
In 2013 McGraw-Hill published Think Like a Rock Star, his argument for treating customers the way bands treat fans. In 2015 he wrote the eulogy for the room he built, saying the people he met there would never see the post.
He came to Substack in May 2024. After fourteen months, he sat at 7 paid subscribers. Mack rebuilt. On August 11, 2026, at 104 paid, he hit Bestseller.
This interview celebrates the badge.
With that, I give you Mack Collier…
Who is in your creative family tree? Name the people you came from, and what each one handed you.
Twenty-six months in, the Bestseller badge landed, and you published ten lessons from getting there. Which of the ten cost you the most to learn?
You started #Blogchat in March 2009 and grew it to 15 to 25 million timeline deliveries a week. In March 2015 you wrote the people you met there would never see the post you were writing. What was it like to keep showing up in a room you knew was emptying?
Forbes put you on a list of the top 25 social media marketers in the world. The Wall Street Journal called. You took those calls from rural Alabama with no company name behind you. Back then, when a stranger asked what you did, what did you say?
Fourteen months in you were sitting at 7 paid subscribers, and you later wrote this line: silence on Substack is not a verdict, it is a lag. Before you believed it, in the middle of the quiet, what were you telling yourself?
Think Like a Rock Star came out in 2013. Thirteen years later you named your Substack Backstage Pass. The metaphor is still load-bearing. What has the rock star idea come to mean since 2013?
You teach content as a filter, not a magnet, and you say it should repel the wrong people. Which readers did you have to be willing to lose, and when did you first turn one away on purpose?
Describe where you write. What’s out the window, what’s on the desk, and what time is it when you start?
The bestseller badge is behind you now. What is half-built on the bench and still unwritten?
You are fifty-five and you call it halftime. What do you know about doing this work today, and could the version of you logging onto Prodigy in 1991 have heard it?
Before we wrap, I highly recommend reading Mack’s piece “Halftime.” For those of us at the mid-century mark an beyond, it’s as much a rallying cry as it is a reminder of the enormous wisdom you have to share with the world.
Please take a moment to read it.
And, as always, thank you for reading today.
Kevin
Below is the text version of my questions and Mack’s answers:
Who is in your creative family tree? Name the people you came from, and what each one handed you.
This is a great question, Kevin. I had to think about this a bit. Mostly, any raw artistic ability I have mostly came from my father’s side of the family. I had an aunt who could paint, my dad and uncles could play guitars, my dad did some woodworking, he could draw a bit. None of it was at a high level, but all above average.
My mother’s side of the family is where I got my empathy, and a desire to try to see the world from the point of view of the other person. I think you combine both sides and that has greatly helped in my content creation and creative mindset.
Twenty-six months in, the Bestseller badge landed, and you published ten lessons from getting there. Which of the ten cost you the most to learn?
Not having a ‘real’ strategy for the first year. I didn’t nail down my audience, I just assumed if I kept writing and engaging, that eventually i would figure it out.
Funny thing is, now that I am dealing with my own Paid subscribers, almost all of them say trying to define their audience is the biggest obstacle. I try to help them with this: If you are having trouble with your positioning, answer these two questions. First, decide who it is you want to reach and why. Once you figure out who you want to reach, answer this question: If they start reading your Substack today, what will change fo them in 6 months?
The change that you want for your average reader will help you define who your audience is, your positioning, everything.
What change do you want to create for your reader?
You started #Blogchat in March 2009 and grew it to 15 to 25 million timeline deliveries a week. In March 2015 you wrote the people you met there would never see the post you were writing. What was it like to keep showing up in a room you knew was emptying?
It’s funny because I’m starting to see the same thing happening with Backstage Pass, to a much lesser degree. #Blogchat was aimed at new bloggers that were looking to get started and needed help with all that entails. That’s one reason why it was so popular, because I intentionally cast such a wide net and it had a more 101-level topic focus.
But over time, regular members would begin to reach a point where they needed something more advanced than 101. They were ready for 301-level content. So those people would likely spend less time with #Blogchat, and in a way I was happy to see that, because it meant that they had grown and advanced past what #blogchat offered, but #blogchat and the discussions we had were part of that.
I think it also happens with Backstage Pass, to a lesser degree. Several of the members of the Paid community are starting to hit Bestseller status. I could see some of them wanting to move on because they feel like they can handle it from here. Totally normal and I completely understand if that happens.
Forbes put you on a list of the top 25 social media marketers in the world. The Wall Street Journal called. You took those calls from rural Alabama with no company name behind you. Back then, when a stranger asked what you did, what did you say?
I’m so glad you asked this question because it goes back to why I harp on positioning.
So from 2006-2010 or so, I worked very closely with a CMO, she also ran a series of user conferences for her company, I spoke there almost every year. I was in touch with her almost daily. No one knew more about who I was or what I did than she did.
So around 2010, they had their big annual conference. I spoke there, and a week or so later she called and we were discussing the even and she said ‘Oh hey BTW, I met a guy at the even, his company is wanting to get into social media marketing and needs a consultant to help them get started. Is that….something you do?”
I froze. Here was the person that probably knew me better than anyone professional on earth, and even she wasn’t sure what I did. I knew immediately that I had a branding problem.
I started working on a system. I called it ‘what do you want to be known for?” Pick 2-3 related topics that you want to be known for. If someone asks a friend to describe what you do, what would they tell a stranger?
I needed to be so clear on what I did that even my friends could tell others what it was.
I was doing social media consulting at the time, but that was too broad. I started focusing on specific elements. I wanted to work on marketing programs that involved direct access to the customer.
So I started focusing on three areas: Loyalty programs, brand ambassador programs, and customer-advisory programs. I created content that focused on all three areas. I became known for all three areas. I got hired to help companies design and implement all three.
At one point about 10 years ago, I had the top result on the internet for the term ‘brand ambassador program’. I won multiple projects just because of that post.
So I try to carry that over to Substack and tell others to be as specific as possible about what you do, how you can help others, and the change you can create for them.
Fourteen months in you were sitting at 7 paid subscribers, and you later wrote this line: silence on Substack is not a verdict, it is a lag. Before you believed it, in the middle of the quiet, what were you telling yourself?
Is this it??? Substack is really funny, it’s so hard for me to get a read on the ups and downs sometimes. Early on, even last year when I started growing a bit, I would have ups and downs out of no where. Last month, I sold a Paid subscription on the first day of the month. I thought wow, great start to the month!
I went 17 days without selling another subscription. Then I sold 15 over the next 13 days.
The ups and downs like that drove me crazy at first. But after going through it a few times, I finally learned to not focus too much on the highs or lows, just keep showing up every day and putting in the work.
Consistency is undefeated.
Think Like a Rock Star came out in 2013. Thirteen years later you named your Substack Backstage Pass. The metaphor is still load-bearing. What has the rock star idea come to mean since 2013?
The core idea behind Think Like a Rock Star is this: How the average company and the average rock star market themselves is completely different.
The average company spends almost all of its marketing dollars on acquiring new customers. Then the second they get a new customer, they ignore them.
The average rock star absolutely ignores someone until they purchase their music or merch, then they work to build a relationship with them.
It’s completely reversed. The average company ignores us right when we are open to having a relationship, the average rock star not only leans in when we show interest, they then let US market for THEM.
I created The Loyalty Graph to show what this looks like:
Companies want to acquire New Customers because its the largest market size, but these customers have almost no loyalty toward the brand. Rock stars focus on the opposite end of the loyalty spectrum, they focus on their biggest fans. Who are the smallest market, but their high levels of loyalty means they will stay with the rock star and then go out and recruit new fans for them.
So the great irony is, the rock star gets the customer acquisition, without paying for it!
I try to apply this same mentality on Substack. I always talk about how when someone upgrades to Paid at Backstage Pass, thats when our relationship begins. Same mentality. I let you do your thing till you upgrade, then we go to work. A lot of creators take the company mindset, they chase the Paid subscriber, but when the person upgrades, then suddenly they begin to ignore them. DMs go unanswered. I do the opposite, I show all the attention after they upgrade. Then the Paid subscriber goes and tells their network to upgrade! Probably 20% of my current Paid subscribers are from referrals. Maybe more.
You teach content as a filter, not a magnet, and you say it should repel the wrong people. Which readers did you have to be willing to lose, and when did you first turn one away on purpose?
Earlier today, I sent an email out to my free subscribers only. I wanted to reach out to them, let them know how we could work together, and if they didn’t want to upgrade, how I could still help them if they decide to stay free.
That email was designed to knock people off the fence. What I mean is the person who is on the fence about upgrading, it’s designed to give them that last reassurance they need that this is the right call, and they upgrade. At the same time, it’s designed to honk off the person who is already wondering if they should leave, who isnt really a fit for my community. This email is designed to remind them of who I am trying to reach. If they look at the email and think ‘Nope, that aint me!”, then they will unsubscribe.
I want that. I want the people who are considering upgrading to do so ,I want the people who are already considering leaving to do so.
To be completely honest, I turn away people pretty regularly. If they are rude (especially to current subscribers), I will remove them from my list. I once lost an Annual Paid subscriber because he attacked a free subscriber. I called him out and told him we don’t do that here. He got mad and canceled. Once a guy wanted to partner with me to help promote a service he offered that was very similar to one a current Paid subscriber of mine offers. I told him no thank you, that I had to support my current Paid subscribers, and would have to pass on the partnership. He then said well what if I was a Paid subscriber as well? I still had to turn him down.
Once your Paid membership starts to grow to a certain point, you have to start spending time on community management. You develop relationships with these people and you want to protect them as individuals, and the group as a whole.
Describe where you write. What’s out the window, what’s on the desk, and what time is it when you start?
I have an office space in a room at home, nothing fancy. The front yard is out the window, I keep my laptop on the desk and typically have my phone nearby as well. I have reached a point where I am doing as much as possible on my phone. The day to day interactions, responding to comments, writing them, basic engagement I do all that on my phone. The more indepth writing, actual posts and any work done on the backend on Substack, I do that on my laptop.
As for timing, I try to block aside a couple of hours every afternoon from 2pm-4pm for writing posts for the week. Doesn’t always work out but I try to block aside that time every weekday so as long as I can make it at least 2-3 times a week, that’s usually enough time to finish 2 posts a week.
The bestseller badge is behind you now. What is half-built on the bench and still unwritten?
Next goal for Substack growth is to hit 1,000 Paid subscribers and the 2nd level Bestseller badge by the end of March, 2027. I can do it as long as I can continue to increase my conversion rate, and free subscriber growth rate at the same time. That will be a big challenge, but it will be a fun one. Will be sharing everything I learn with you guys in the Paid communty!
I do feel like I need to make a bit of a pivot, a small one. I’m not sure to what exactly. But it feels like it’s time for a change. I will have to think about what change I need to make in order to create more value for my subscribers.
You are fifty-five and you call it halftime. What do you know about doing this work today, and could the version of you logging onto Prodigy in 1991 have heard it?
The 20 year old kid in 1991 had no idea it was possible to make any serious money online. I just thought it was amazing that I could send an email and then hear back from someone on the other side of the country in just a few days! If I remember correctly in 1991, there was still such a thing as ‘long distance calling’, anything outside of your area code in your state was a long distance call and cost a fortune. But here I am I wake up and see a Stripe notification that someone in Australia paid me $75 at 3am my time.
It’s what I love about Substack. That it gives everyone a way to use their talents to make some money for themselves, and then leverage that into a business or really whatever they want. And honestly, it’s why I love working with my Paid subscribers. To hear their stories, learn why they want to build something. Their stories become something that I want to take on and help them achieve their goals. I do consider how at some point I won’t be able to continue to scale the 1 on 1 relationships I have with my Paid subscribers, but for now I am enjoying helping them, and I honestly sometimes think it helps me more than it does them.
Kevin thank you so much for asking me to participate in the 3X5 Series, it is an honor. I love the unique visuals and branding around it. It’s funny you mentioned the Halftime post, thank you for linking to it. That’s another post that I felt wasn’t done, but I just decided to send it. There’s a consistent pattern on Substack: The posts that I’m not happy with end up being the ones that readers enjoy the most. Maybe that means I am overthinking my content here!
Appreciate this, Kevin. Thank you for being a good friend.
Mack is THE BEST!! Somehow he found me and I couldn’t imagine Substack without him. He has the gift of making you feel seen and heard! I can’t wait to delve into this. It’s a treat for sure. Hands down the one of best guys on Substack. Worth the paid too.